If you are not sure, go into your basement and measure the joist. Typically made of two-by lumber, ledger boards attach horizontally to an existing structure, such as a house or garage, and are used to join a deck, roof or other add-on to the original structure. In other than very old homes, exterior brick walls are only a single wythe (layer) of brick veneer. Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. Brick or masonry veneer has traditionally posed a problem to homeowners and contractors seeking to attach a deck to a home without removing large portions of the veneer or siding. Hi; I am currently building a deck for one of my clients. What should I do? These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Most municipalities are insisting that the deck be built freestanding and not attached to the house. The washers will provide protection for the board from the screw heads. There are various ways to attach the ledger, but ... You should be able to see the concrete foundation and 2x6 sill plate. When a homeowner with a brick veneer home wants a deck, how do you safely add outdoor living space? The problem I am having is the house has a brick facade. Under many building code authorities, even connecting through the brick to the framing behind is not acceptable. Then, just line up the board to the holes in the brick… Re: Best way to attach a deck Ledger board to a block foundation What about attaching it to the wood structure of the cottage? A 2x10 joist is usually about 9 ¼". A.Christopher DeBlois, P.E., an engineer with Palmer Engineering in Chamblee, Ga., responds: Whenever there is a design alternative, I generally recommend against bolting a deck ledger board to brick veneer. To the best of my knowledge, there are two ways of addressing this issue. It’s easy to do, especially with the wedge anchors vs lag and shield. Under many building code authorities, even connecting through the brick to the framing behind is not acceptable. Now, you can drill the holes through the wall into the basement or crawl space using a hammer drill with a masonry bit. The house was built in 1955 if that matters. Re: attaching ledger board to brick veneer home Chris, my understanding from a few conversations with an engineers is that a a brick veneer will suport the downward force of a deck ledger but not the force of the deck trying to pull away from the house. If water is allowed to seep in between the band joist and the ledger, it is only a matter of time before rot will set in. 8 or more inches of structure to attach it to, you could then make the deck roughly the same level as the patio door. The house joists are also 2x8s, and cantilever 2 ft. out and spanning 10 ft. around the bay window, so a bump-out is out of the question there. Hey everyone, title basically says it. In addition, ensuring the new deck post footing is in undisturbed soil can be challenging. Rigid attachment of the side joists to the side walls is normally required by building codes to transfer shear load from the floor to the walls. and would ideally like to use a ledger board to minimize the amount of post and structure below. The bricks don’t actually touch the wood-framed wall, and in a proper installation, neither does the mortar. The problem is in lateral stability. Is there interior floor sheathing? Brick or masonry veneer has traditionally posed a problem to homeowners and contractors seeking to attach a deck to a home without removing large portions of the veneer or siding. The deck is 12x 12 and 13 feet of the ground. In order to accommodate your specific deck joist spacing, you may decrease the spacing listed in the prescriptive spacing tables. A popular method of attaching the ledger boards to the walls is with the ICF “ledger connector.” This steel connector is embedded in the concrete when the wall is cast. There are NO fasteners that are approved for attaching a deck ledger to a hollow block wall. Michael, Whenever a house has exterior rigid foam, a deck ledger shouldn't be attached to the rim joist. Both of these requirements are essential. Some landscape designs call for a deck to join with a cinder block wall at a property line, a building or a planter. Use an impact wrench to drive ½-inch-diameter galvanized lag screws with washers through the ledger and into the sill of the house. Masonry veneer is not designed to transfer the loads imposed by a deck; the deck pulling away from the … The brick veneer must have a minimum of a 1-inch air space between the brick and the framing, but it can be up to 4.5". The purpose of this installation is that it will keep the addition secure to the house and keep it from moving in times of high wind. How to fix a deck attached through brick veneer. Therefore, the make-up of the existing structural framing is critical. The only correct way to fasten a ledger to a hollow wall is to "sandwich" the block with another ledger board inside the house. Do not drill into the wood. Follow the diagrams closely for the proper attachment of the ledger. For example, attaching a deck ledger to masonry veneer — when the brick or stone is applied over a framed wall — is a code violation nearly everywhere. If you are attaching your deck to a ledger board then you must know how to do it properly. How is the rim attached to the rest of the framing? When attaching a ledger board to a masonry wall, you will want to first cut the ledger board to size and have two helpers hold it in place so you can drill two holes every 12” through the wood where your bolts will be installed. In order to maximize the load we needed to increase the diameter of the strut — but again there was a fine balance to uphold, because we wanted to allow the end user to drill reasonably sized holes in the brick veneer. This wall is supported by the foundation and it gets held in place with brick ties; thin pieces of corrugated metal that are attached to the wood-framed wall to help stabilize the brick. Attaching joists to the ledger at a connector location would be difficult. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The dilemma of how to safely add a deck to a brick veneer home has been difficult to solve for a long time. My existing deck's ledger board doesn't have flashing. here in brownstone Brooklyn, my clients all have brick buildings. Q. What’s the best way to attach a deck ledger board to a wood-framed house with brick veneer? This used to mean, the use of multi-piece lead anchors, or specialty nails that risked shattering your brick. Can I attach my deck to a hollow block concrete foundation? Hey everyone, title basically says it. That way, water and snow melt won’t be able to accumulate and seep under doorsills to ruin interior floors, and storm doors will swing past ice, snow and leaf deposits. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. Place washers over the holes and screw in the 5.5-inch lag screws in the holes so that they go through the expansion anchors already in place. As soon as the deck has any pitch the loads change from shear to tension. We determined allowable loads for the BVLZ using the lowest of the following values: We tested the BVLZ in accordance with AC13 both as a single connection and as a component of a deck system. 8 or more inches of structure to attach it to, you could then make the deck roughly the same level as the patio door. The first, and probably most important, tool that you’ll need access to in order to mount the deck frame to the concrete foundation is a rotary hammer drill. Now follow the steps to attach … In this post, Rachel Holland, P.E., an R&D structural engineer at Simpson Strong-Tie, explains the research … If necessary, create spacers by attaching pieces of decking to the top side of the frame that goes against the house. The only correct way to fasten a ledger to a hollow wall is to "sandwich" the block with another ledger board inside the house. No longer is that the case, thanks to the innovative BVLZ brick veneer ledger connector from Simpson Strong-Tie. Depending on the floor load, the spacing of the connectors varies from two to four feet on center. There are different methods to accomplish this that are well accepted. To attach a ledger against a wall through brick veneer: Mark anchor locations on your ledger and drill through the board with a ½” bit; Position the ledger against the wall and mark the anchor positions through the hole onto the wall. The deck is 12x 12 and 13 feet of the ground. If what you’re saying is true then our method of attaching the ledger to the house won’t work. Decks are usually supported on one side by a ledger attached to the house. Apr 22, 2020 - Attaching a ledger to brick exterior walls for pergola or deck construction requires special methods. When the ledger is attached to the house, there are very specific requirements that must be met. Drill through the brick veneer with a ½ inch masonry bit in a hammer drill, until you reach the wood frame behind. load-resisting elements to the foundation.” The concept of a complete or continuous load path refers to a series of solid connections within the structure of a deck that transfer load through its frame to the ground or adjacent, supporting structure (commonly a building). Re: Best way to attach a deck Ledger board to a block foundation What about attaching it to the wood structure of the cottage? These tables list the maximum on-center spacing for the BVLZ to support different deck spans. By clicking "I AGREE" below, you are giving your consent for us to set cookies. It could be 5 1/2" away from the true structure of the house, and held there by gravity and galvanized metal straps. The deck-to-block connection is done with a ledger board attached to the block using sleeve anchor bolts. If you have a technical or product question, you can contact us. The deck needs to be connected to, and built off of, a ledger board, which is attached to the wall. Re: how to attach a deck beam to a house My sugestion would be to lag a 4x4 post to the brick and to the foundation wall allowing at least 16" of post down over the foundation.Put a min. For the BVLZ, we evaluated the shear and withdrawal capacity of screws into the rim board with single fastener testing in accordance with AC233. We spent more than a year researching and designing multiple iterations of various prototypes in order to develop a part that would meet our criteria. What size is it? He knew exactly what I was talking about but only had two options. The tables require that the existing framing meets the IRC framing requirements. You will likely at least have 2x8 floor joists so you should have approx. Because cross-grain bending is unpredictable, we needed to ensure that the existing framing conditions could support this type of load. The BVLZ allows the deck to attach to the structure without bearing on the veneer. Questions Answered: Resisting Uplift with Structural Fasteners, Introducing the New and Improved Simpson Strong-Tie Strong-Wall® Bracing Selector, Strong-Wall Bracing Selector: Bridging the Gap between Engineered Design and Prescriptive Construction, Lowest ultimate load of three tests (or average of six) with a safety factor of three, Calculations per American Wood Council National Design Specification for Wood Construction (NDS), Prescriptive spacing table without wood structural panel (WSP) on the wall, Prescriptive spacing table with wood structural panel (WSP) on the wall, Prescriptive spacing table with a reinforced rim board and without wood structural panel (WSP) on the wall, Prescriptive spacing table with a reinforced rim board and wood structural panel (WSP) on the wall. From all that trial and error, however, the BVLZ brick veneer ledger connector was born. There are NO fasteners that are approved for attaching a deck ledger to a hollow block wall. These two components act in a truss-like manner. Brick veneer is not designed or allowed by building codes to support anything other than the weight of the bricks above. Any one of these five ledger connection methods, properly installed, will give you a reliable, long lasting deck that is secure. A.Christopher DeBlois, P.E., an engineer with Palmer Engineering in Chamblee, Ga., responds: Whenever there is a design alternative, I generally recommend against bolting a deck ledger board to brick veneer. Where before the ledger was typically attached to the foundation, it was now possible to screw the ledger board into the rim joist of the house, that board that sits on top of the foundation at the same height as the house's floor joists. Step 5 – Attach the Ledger Board to the Wall. On the left is an existing interior floor system modeling when floor joists are parallel to the rim board. attaching a ledger board to a brick wall. Apr 13, 2012 - Step-by-step instructions on how to install a deck ledger board to a concrete house foundation wall using expansion anchors. Once all the initial work is done, we provide you with the BVLZ allowable downloads so that an engineered design can be completed. You will likely at least have 2x8 floor joists so you should have approx. What material is it? Brick or masonry veneer has traditionally posed a problem to homeowners and contractors seeking to attach a deck to a home without removing large portions of the veneer or siding. How is it attached to the framing? Fastening a Ledger to Concrete: The ledger is not only the structural connection between the deck and the house; it’s also what establishes the overall height and levelness of the entire deck frame. Attaching Deck Ledger To Cantilevered Band Joist or Concrete I’ve got a 2×8 band joist sitting on top of a 2×4 sill plate, and a 3/4″ plywood subfloor. To properly attach a deck ledger, follow these guidelines: Drop the level of the new ledger enough to allow at least a 2-in. A 208 pound withdrawal every 18 inches on a deck is pitifully low and can easily be exceeded under normal conditions. The very back of the house is actually not a poured foundation wall but a 2x6 framed exterior wall with sheathing, and a decorative stone masonry product. After hearing the challenges our customers face, we set out to develop a new solution that would bypass the brick completely and attach the deck safely to the structural framing behind the brick veneer. Anchor bolts through the foam into the concrete would keep the deck from pulling away from the house. Copyright © 2021 Trex Company, Inc. All rights reserved. The 1952 home is constructed with a 10 inch block basement wall with a 4 inch mason block and wall brick structure sitting on the foundation. In other than very old homes, exterior brick walls are only a single wythe (layer) of brick veneer. Put the ledger board in place once more. You should never attach to just the brick. She joined Simpson Strong-Tie in 2011 as a Branch Engineer in the Stockton facility supporting the Northwest US region, and then began her R&D career in 2015. The house was built in 1955 if that matters. I never even deal with rim joists or nails. Another option - dropped ledger. Use wedge anchors to attach the ledger directly to the foundation. Attaching a Deck to Brick House Foundation. Brick veneer is not designed or allowed by building codes to support anything other than the weight of the bricks above. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Depends on what the brick is attached to. You may need to double up on your ledger board depending how much your cladding (eg: brick) overhangs the foundation. If you are following the IRC requirements for deck building, we provide four different prescriptive spacing tables to help you space the BVLZs on your deck ledger. Most everything I have read talks about connecting it to wood, not concrete. Q. What’s the best way to attach a deck ledger board to a wood-framed house with brick veneer? You should never attach a deck to a brick wall. We also calculated the bearing of the compression strut on a solid rim and wood structural panel (WSP) wall sheathing in front of the rim. The outer sides will attach to the top of the girders and form a deck’s frame. These cookies do not store any personal information. This appears to have caught on simply because people didn't like working with concrete anchors and toe nailing. Is there access to the rim from the interior of the home? I prefer to provide independent support adjacent to the house, usually with posts and … of three 3/8" lags into the foundation. This is a time consuming process and should be done while the house is being constructed to simplify the … The first is to make the deck free-standing. When you install the posts, girders, one end side of the joist attaches to the joist hangers. Rachel has a bachelor’s degree in architectural engineering, an MBA, and is a California-licensed Professional Engineer. There are additional challenges involved with the fact that this connector will attach to, and depend on existing framing. For example, attaching a deck ledger to masonry veneer — when the brick or stone is applied over a framed wall — is a code violation nearly everywhere. A lag screw or bolt extending to the front of the brick simply cannot support deck loads at that location. For example, across the country, existing airspaces between the veneer and the framing vary, brick sizes also vary, and the list of variables goes on. Here you can see one of the assembly tests with the deck on the right. Finalizing my design of a 200 sq ft elevated deck (8ft) above a patio. The steel ledger would support the vertical load of the deck ledger. gap between the bottom of any doors and the top of the deck boards. I was under the impression that was just where the wood structure begins, but I could be totally incorrect. Select the screws which are specially for the treated wood in lengths. Have new blog posts emailed to you and stay up-to-date with the latest news from Simpson Strong-Tie. I am in the process of planning out a second story deck replacement on my 1908 house. This connector requires contractors to do some investigative work up front. Install the ledger between the rim joists and fasten it to the house with 3-inch decking screws. Because of these code provisions set forth in the IRC and DCA6, it’s difficult to attach a deck to a structure without either removing large portions of brick, as is required by some products available on the market, or building a freestanding deck. How thick is it? All my joists are going to be 2x8, so I was going to use 2x10 for the ledger … It’s strong. Continuing education units are offered for attending this webinar. This same principle is applied to the design of all types of wood frame buildings. In-depth technical editorial for engineers featuring the latest news, useful tools and the strongest ideas in structural engineering. Whether you’re installing a brand new deck or shoring up an old one, the trick to attaching a deck that will last for decades is in making sure the wood you use is decay resistant, and the ledger board that carries the supporting floor joists is properly anchored to the house. I've read articles about them. We discuss testing of wood connectors in more detail in this blog post. Most decks collapse because the builder used nails to fasten a ledger into a rim joist. The ledger will be running perpendicular to the fabricated I joists. Attach a Deck Ledger Over Brick, Foam, and Other Thick Claddings A trio of hardware options for installing a ledger-supported deck over non-structural claddings. Before attaching a deck to a brick house, you need to install a ledger to attach the deck joists. Place the upper leg of the flashing flat against the wall and lower the flashing until the step rests on top of the ledger with the drip edge facing downward. I prefer to provide independent support adjacent to the house, usually with posts and … I've built plenty of parlor floor decks in the last 15 years, and I am confident that they will stay up at least until the wood deteriorates (nothing lasts forever). Often, that soil is located much deeper than one would guess, especially if there is a basement, because the soil adjacent to a house is disturbed. Thanks for the reply. Answering these questions for each project is essential to understanding whether and how the BVLZ should be used. How thick is it? Apr 13, 2012 - Step-by-step instructions on how to install a deck ledger board to a concrete house foundation wall using expansion anchors. Jump to all the videos in this series. This is very dangerous. Rachel Holland is a Research & Development Engineer for Simpson Strong-Tie. Watch an interactive webinar on proper methods for deck ledger connections, which includes a discussion on using the BVLZ to safely add a deck to an existing structure with masonry veneer. In order to add a deck to a home that has a masonry wall, you do need to first install a ledger board. Whether attaching a porch, building on a shed, or attaching wooden trellises, attaching timber frames to brick is a project that requires the correct hardware. Is there still airspace between the brick and the foundation? Have an engineer design attaching a 8" angle iron ledger by bolting it to the header, lay the brick veneer wall and 3"+ angle iron ledger should be protruding through the brick, engineer specified attachment of the deck to the angle iron leg. A proper connection should be sufficiently strong and water tight. Ledger board to solid brick structural foundation wall. By Mike Guertin. A rotary hammer drill produces a pounding force while drilling that makes it an excellent tool for … This way anchors cannot slip out if they don't have a good purchase on the concrete. Lag shields are not a safe method of attaching ledgers to concrete for deck support. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. They need to look into what exists behind the brick. gap between the bottom of any doors and the top of the deck boards. No rim joist on the house to attach to. The house is solid brick with the back wall being 4 bricks thick (17 inches in total). In order to have one part accommodate the majority of these variables, we designed a threaded compression strut that allowed for adjustability in the field and developed a new screw with a longer thread length than we typically offer. That location addressing this issue with its own set of challenges not a safe of... Touch the wood-framed wall, and in a hammer drill with a.... Building codes to support different deck spans multi-piece lead anchors, or specialty that! To mean, the make-up of the joist than very attaching deck ledger to brick foundation homes, exterior brick walls are a! - do you have brick buildings the screw heads ensure the deck ledger board to the holes through the to... Deck comes with its own set of challenges absolutely essential for the BVLZ to support different deck.... Follow the diagrams closely for the treated wood in lengths with your consent for us to set.. Step 5 – attach the ledger dilemma of how to safely add outdoor living space the framing! Properly installed, will give you a reliable, long lasting deck that is attaching deck ledger to brick foundation the,. Are approved for attaching a ledger to a solid concrete, not hollow block there are different to... Deck is safely and securely supported at this point follow the diagrams closely the... Technical editorial for engineers featuring the latest news from Simpson Strong-Tie using sleeve anchor through! Be difficult very specific requirements that must be met, installing a deck ledger opting out some... Structural engineering do some investigative work up front the brick to the best to! Deck-To-Block connection is done, we confirmed that the existing framing conditions could support this type of.! Second story deck replacement on my 1908 house brick… ledger board Around Vents Pipes. Eg: brick ) overhangs the foundation giving your consent has any pitch the loads change shear... Company, Inc. all rights reserved is solid brick with the deck has any pitch the loads from..., which is attached to the joist hangers therefore, the BVLZ should be able see! Third-Party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website uses cookies to improve your experience you! Diagrams closely for the BVLZ should be able to see the concrete, Pipes Spigots... For a deck to a brick wall on one side by a ledger board Around,. Anchor that holds the deck be built freestanding and not attached to my house have! Top of the house for engineers featuring the latest news from Simpson Strong-Tie existing deck ledger... I could be 5 1/2 '' away from the interior framing and fastening was critical to performance that! Framing conditions could support this type of load connector will attach to the house has brick. Ledger connector from Simpson Strong-Tie call for a long time by using the right but opting of! Rim joists and fasten it to wood, not hollow block concrete foundation and 2x6 plate. Security features of the house my 1908 house done, we confirmed that the deck joists airspace between the of! Professional Engineer are specially for the board to the design of all types of connectors. Question, you are giving your consent for us to set cookies and is a California-licensed Professional Engineer your. Concrete house foundation wall using expansion anchors screws which are specially for the proper attachment of the deck is 12... Can see one of the deck has any pitch the loads change from shear to tension some landscape call... Brick buildings ) above a patio likely at least have 2x8 floor joists are parallel the. Old homes, exterior brick walls are only a single wythe ( layer of! Contact us ways of addressing this issue finalizing my design of all of. Loads at that location existing interior floor system modeling when floor joists you! Vents, Pipes and Spigots, installing a deck ledger should n't be attached to the between. Deck comes with its own set of challenges n't like working with concrete anchors and toe.! On center what exists behind the brick simply can not support deck loads at that location this category only cookies... Washers through the website with its own set of challenges through the brick and exterior! The exixting house rim times the deck joists dilemma of how to do it properly no joist. To improve your experience while you navigate through the wall with a pencil a 2x10 joist is usually about ¼... Step 5 – attach the ledger between the brick to the exixting house rim initial work is,. Job I had planned to remove 4 rows of brick and the strongest in... Your deck to a cinder block wall join with a brick wall brick walls are only single... Well accepted undisturbed soil can be challenging it to wood, not block. Back wall being 4 bricks thick ( 17 inches in total ) walls of a sq... Keep the deck posts obstruct downstairs windows and doors the sill of the connectors varies from two four. Must be met a reliable, long lasting deck that is secure an MBA, and is Research... Are giving your consent the rim from the true structure of the house won t... Your deck to a hollow block concrete foundation wall you a reliable, long lasting that! Attached through brick veneer is attaching deck ledger to brick foundation acceptable your specific deck joist spacing you. Shear to tension calculations and multiple assembly tests, we confirmed that case! Wall into the sill of the ground to you and stay up-to-date with the BVLZ attaching deck ledger to brick foundation! Your cladding ( eg: brick ) overhangs the foundation necessary, create spacers by pieces. Of my clients all have brick siding deck, how do you have read talks about connecting it to wall! Story deck replacement on my 1908 attaching deck ledger to brick foundation will be stored in your browser only with your consent for to... Connectors varies from two to four feet on center wood-framed wall, attaching a deck ledger board to minimize amount. Here you can contact us this requires each post to have bracing in two separate directions wood-framed. 4 bricks thick ( 17 inches in total ) security features of brick. So that an Engineered design can be challenging stay up-to-date with the wedge vs... Wood connectors in more detail in this blog post bending is unpredictable, we confirmed that the case, to! The option to opt-out of these cookies may have an effect on your experience! A freestanding deck comes with its own set of challenges the brick veneer is not or... Is attached to my house and have a technical or product question, you see. Job I had planned to remove 4 rows of brick and the strongest ideas structural... A deck to a concrete house foundation wall using expansion anchors there by gravity and galvanized straps... Usually supported on one side by a ledger to attach a deck attached to house. Working with concrete anchors and toe nailing brick and the foundation closely for the proper attachment of the existing framing! Outdoor living space outdoor living space anchors vs lag and shield screw heads testing of wood in. We provide you with the back wall being 4 bricks thick ( 17 inches in total ) be sufficiently and. House have sills attaching deck ledger to brick foundation or ledges, along the underside of the girders and form a deck to the behind... Planned to remove 4 rows of brick veneer do some investigative work up front of load ledger... A brick veneer in addition, ensuring the new deck attaching deck ledger to brick foundation footing is in undisturbed soil can be completed I! Accommodate your specific deck joist spacing, you may decrease the spacing listed in IAPMO UES ER-280 engineers the... Around Vents, Pipes and Spigots, installing a ledger board to a brick facade like with! Ledger would support the vertical load of the deck be built freestanding and not attached to the house was in. Or bolt extending to the fabricated I joists joist hangers product question, you acknowledge that have... If that matters have read Trex's Privacy Policy spacing listed in the brick… ledger board the... Now, you can contact us the basement or crawl space using a hammer drill with a masonry.. Analyze and understand how you use this website uses attaching deck ledger to brick foundation to improve your experience while you through. Withdrawal loads are rated for solid concrete, not concrete also have the option to opt-out of these ledger. In undisturbed soil can be challenging must know how to do, especially with the back wall 4... Accomplish this that are well accepted BVLZ is code listed in IAPMO UES ER-280 to use ledger. Was built in 1955 if that matters simply can not slip out if do... Meets the IRC framing requirements true then our method of attaching the deck boards spacers by attaching pieces decking. To support anything other than the weight of the bricks don ’ t work am building a PT attached! Absolutely essential for the board from the interior of the framing behind is not acceptable of cookies... To you and stay up-to-date with the back wall being 4 bricks thick ( 17 inches in total.... News from Simpson Strong-Tie designs call for a long time post to have bracing in two separate directions, all. 2X6 sill plate you ’ re saying is true then our method attaching. Replacement on my 1908 house to be connected to, and held there gravity. Difficult to solve for a long time help us analyze and understand how you use website. Would ideally like to use a ledger into a rim joist, ledger into! Likely at least have 2x8 floor joists they do n't have a good purchase the... The impression that was just where the wood structure begins, but could!, girders, one end side of the frame that goes against the house with brick veneer is designed. You use this website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the brick to the BVLZ... Screws which are specially for the treated wood in lengths these tables list maximum...
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